Two-Stroke vs Four-Stroke: The Truth
Two-stroke vs Four-stroke : The Truth… It’s the question that goes round and round in circles. In clubs and paddocks across the world, proponents from both camps argue their corners passionately; each convinced that they are right. But what’s the real truth? Can you definitely say which makes the better dirt bike – two-stroke or four-stroke? Ride Expeditions decided to investigate…
2 Stroke Vs 4 Stroke BACK IN THE DAY
If you go back into the archives in search of an answer, then you’ll be looking a long time. When motocross was in its infancy in the UK, riders used stripped back versions of the current road bikes on the track. At that time that usually meant the big four-strokes like BSA, AJS and Triumph but there was still a sizeable contingent that favoured the less bulky two-strokes such as Greeves and Cotton. A look at the world championship winners from that time and it’s evident that from between the late fifties right up to 1969 there was little to split the wins between the big British thumpers and the European strokers.
But once Suzuki entered the ring in the late sixties, the death knell appeared to have rung for the four-strokes, and for decades the world championships were dominated with the smell of two-stroke oil. But Jacky Martens had a different idea when he took the 500cc world championship with his four-stroke Husqvarna in 1993. Few could have predicted that this victory would mark the beginning of the end for the strokers.
But for professional motocross that was indeed the case. From the mid 2000’s the bike manufacturers – lead very much by the Japanese brands – threw their development budgets into all things four-stroke, leaving the strokers largely undeveloped and in most cases, entirely dropped. The resultant landscape within motocross is now entirely four-stroke with MX1 and MX2 riders only able to be competitive on these bikes, a change largely artificially engineered by the increased capacities permitted for the four-strokes. The two-strokes may still dominate the junior classes and various niche race series, but for the time being, their day is done.
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A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD?
But while the market has polarised in terms of motocross, for enduro and off-road the playing field is entirely different. Thanks largely to the persistence of KTM, the two-strokes continued to be relevant and competitive throughout the darker years. Once the firm was rebranded and relaunched back in the late 1990s, the Austrian firm’s dogged determination and racing success with both their two-stroke and four-stroke ranges within enduro and motocross has meant that they have continued to produce and develop both. OK so for the strokers the leaps in technology have not been as marked as their siblings, but KTM still offer the widest and most comprehensive range of off-road bikes on the market by far.
And the parallel success of both engine types within the off road sector has encouraged other brands, most noticeably the European companies. While the Japanese firms are decidedly cool on the off-road market – with Honda and Yamaha only fielding two bikes each to the sector and Suzuki and Kawasaki all but opted out, the Euro boys are having a field day.
If you are in the market for an off-road bike, buyers in 2016 now have an astoundingly good selection to choose from – KTM, Husqvarna, Gas Gas, Beta and Sherco all produce a wide range of capacities and engine configurations. Factor in the Yamaha WRFs and the Honda CFRXs and it’s a great position for dirt bike lovers.
BUT WHICH IS BETTER TWO STROKE OR FOUR STROKE? WE BREAK IT DOWN
OK so most rider’s initial reaction would be to say that the thumpers are heavier. But is that actually true? If you look at the data for the 2017 KTM EXC250 and EXCF 250, the four-stroke is a mere 3 kg heavier, which in the grand scheme of things is not vast. And in terms of the top capacities in each engine type, the EXC300 is only 6.5 kg lighter than the 500. Whatever might have been the case in the past, the weight differences are nothing like as marked as they used to be
But it’s not as simple as that. Four-stroke engines are taller than their equivalent two-stroke counterparts. And the further away from the centre of gravity that weight sits, the more noticeable it becomes meaning that the big 500 KTM will feel substantially heavier than the 300 than those 6.5 kg would suggest. It’s just physics. Yamaha have countered that issue to some extent by their rear-slanting engine that takes the weight closer in to the centre of gravity of the machine, which works well. The WRF450 wears its weight well.
The handling on any bike can sometimes appear quite subjective, and what works for one rider will not be the same for another. But that’s largely because so many riders simply run their bikes as the factory set them. The manufacturers allow us endless adjustment of sag, rebound and compression damping and options on springs rate as part of their marketing push each year. But having shelled out nearly £8k on the machine that is capable of winning Romaniacs, what do we spend our aftermarket cash on? Having the suspension properly set up for our weight, ability and preferred riding style? No – we buy a replacement end-can that makes more noise and marginally more power, even before we know whether we actually need more power …
OK so this aside, let’s assume that we’ve actually got properly dialled suspension. Which will handle better – two or four-stroke? The answer is again about physics and the lighter bike will always come out on top in a straight fight. If you factor in the ‘perceived weight’ of the bangers taller engine then it’s a hand’s down win for the stroker. Look how the 300cc two-strokes dominate the top end of extreme enduro – those boys know a thing or two about a bike’s handling. Strokers turn quicker, push less and are easier to control.
For less extreme riding then, in reality the handling between the two will be less marked, and for trail riding – almost unnoticeable. Because the four-strokes are easier to ride thanks to their power delivery – see below – the guy on the thumper is not going to feel as beat up at the end of your average day. But when the going turns really wet and snotty, the stroker riders will be the last man standing.
Now as we said in the intro, the reason that the four-strokes have won out in motocross is that the authorities allowed them to be twice the size of the two-strokes. Hardly surprising that they won the day really. But if you compare like with like at a given capacity, a two stroke will always be more powerful than a four stroke – it has twice the amount of firing strokes! Although KTM don’t quote power on their spec sheets, the 250SX makes nearly 50 bhp, compared to the SXF that generates somewhere near the high thirties.
Before the advent of power valves, the power delivery on the strokers was brutal. They’d have no power for ages and then the hit would come in like a sledgehammer to the back of your head. If you ever get the chance to ride a Kawasaki KX500 you will know exactly what we mean – hit the power band and the landscape just blurs. But the power valves made this power far more manageable and tuneable and modern two-strokes are very sophisticated machines, delivering power through the rev range while still maintaining that top end hit that owners love. Add in the ability to adjust the delivery by changing the springing and opening point of the power valve and variable ignition mapping and the two-strokes are a different prospect than those arm-wrenching animals of the 80s.
But the four-strokes have changed remarkably too. Gone are the pistons as big as bean cans and now modern thumpers have slim line pistons that are barely a centimetre deep, capable of moving at up to 12,000 rpm – that’s an astonishing 200 times a second! Faced with technology that seems more at home on Formula 1 cars, if you ride a 2017 four-stroke, the flexibility and response from the engine is staggering. From tick over to red line, the new breeds of four-strokes deliver a progressive and linear power curve that would have been unimaginable twenty years ago. And that is the secret to their success.
Four-strokes are incredibly easy to ride whether you are a novice or an expert. Gear selection is far less critical when the bike will pull almost any gear from almost any speed. While the two-stroke pilots will be dancing up and down the gearbox, the thumper boys are pretty much twist and go. On hardpack and slippery surfaces, the way the four-stroke puts down the power is easier to manage, but that’s also tied in to the rider’s ability – a poor rider is still a poor rider, they’ll just get into less problems on a thumper.
If you ask which is faster, the answer will be the stroker in a straight drag race. But off-road riding is not a drag race and there’s an element of tortoise and hare here. And we all know who won that one.
EASE OF USE
Put back to back, the thumpers are going to win this one hands down. They are easier to ride thanks to a broad spread of linear power that anyone should be able to master, compared to the slightly more involving riding style needed for the stroker.
In terms of trail riding, the four-strokes tend to be vastly more comfortable to run long distances on the black top than the equivalent two-stroke. They will also get through much less fuel, which is pretty important in terrain where there isn’t a petrol station round the corner. On top of this, riders don’t have to remember to take enough two-stroke oil with them on every single trip, or spend time measuring out oil and shaking the bike like a loon on the forecourt when you’ve filled up. OK so some manufacturers are bringing oil injection back in, but you still need to remember to top it up!
OK so we have to define how you are using the bike. This blog isn’t really aimed at all out racers, so lets assume an active hobby rider. In terms of what you get through week to week, it will be two-stroke oil on the stroker and engine oil and oil filters on the thumper. Strokers don’t seem to care too much about what’s in the sump and how meticulous you are about changes, but if you want to get the best out of your modern four-stroke you need to give it some regular love on the oil side of things. Not excessively as the owners manual might suggest as that assumes you are an enduro god, but just regularly to keep things sweet.
Other than that, the other consumables will be largely comparable. Wring the throttle and you will get through tyres and drive train components just as fast on whichever you chose. Similarly, suspension, bearings and things like that will depend on how much you ride, where you ride and how hard you ride. It’s not rocket science!
OK so this is the one that frightens many riders off the four-strokes. The prospect of replacing all those moving parts at the top end of a thumper is enough to make most go pale. And undoubtedly this is true – if you trash the top end of your Husky FE450 it will be vastly more expensive than the same operation on a TE300. On top of that, while most riders will still not worry too much about stripping down a two-stroke top end, the same guys may be more nervous about replacing the piston on a thumper, so then you also have to factor in somebody else doing the job on top of the parts. It gets expensive.
But let’s rewind a little – this whole scenario is based on two assumptions:
a) that four-strokes are somehow unreliable and prone to self-destruction
b) we are professional racers running the bike at the ragged edge for lap after lap
While a) might have been the case fifteen years ago, it’s simply not true now, and as for b) we are definitely not pro racers!
Buy yourself any of the 2018 models for trail riding and general off-road use and it will go on for years if you look after it. Yes you might need a new piston every so often and need to check the valve clearances occasionally but that’s going to be it.
Choose the stroker route and although the costs are less, you are a lot more tied into slightly more regular freshen ups. As a rule of thumb, we will look to replace the piston on the Ride Expeditions EXC250 after around 120 hours to keep it fresh and on the pipe, much more frequently than we’d need on an equivalent four stroke.
Just a tip here – the Power Parts Piston kit for this bike includes a piston, rings, gudgeon pin, circlips and all gaskets and costs less than the piston on it’s own!
Again this is a difficult one to really quantify because it assumes that a potential buyer is looking at two bikes of the same capacity, which is maybe unlikely. If this is the case the stroker is always cheaper – commonly by about £500 if buying new in the UK. If you look at a more realistic comparison of a buyer considering a 450 four-stroke over a 300 two-stroke from a dealership, the difference is around £550.
In terms of the second-hand market, the strokers come out on top too – but only if you are selling! Buyers are generally more comfortable buying a used two-stroke, given that they are unlucky enough to buy a wrong ‘un, fixing it will be vastly less costly. Consequently, residual values sink slower on the oil-burners, so proportionally you’ll be paying more for a used two-stroke than a ‘pre-loved’ four-stroke.
2T vs 4T - THE VERDICT
OK so if we add up the scores, it’s a straight tie on points. Where the stroker gains in terms of weight, the thumper wins out with ease of use. Where the one with the valves is more cheaper to buy initially, you’ll need to find more cash for a used oil burner. And the result is no surprise if you have owned and ridden both. Gone are the days of fragile four-strokes that lunch themselves after six months, as are the hair – trigger throttle two-strokes of the past. If you haven’t upgraded your bike since 2005, then you will be truly astounded as to how much better the new crop of bikes really are. Get yourself to a try-out-day at the very least and give them a go – and then get yourself a bank loan.
But as to which you actually choose, the buying decision may be far more about where you live and where you ride rather more than any of the considerations above.
Tell a Western Australian that he needs a 250 two-stroker for his trail riding and you’ll get a two word answer. These boys cover big distances flat-out on sandy trails, so a 450 thumper is the obvious tool for the job. But try to convince a British trail rider that the same bike works well on snotty, stony and tight trails in North Devon and you’ll be banging your head against a brick wall. The phrase ‘Horses for Courses’ comes to mind…
So what do you think? Have you owned both the strokers and the thumpers and do you think one is better than the other? Please let us know your comments below.
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68 comments on “Two-Stroke vs Four-Stroke: The Truth”
I have owned many of both, If I were younger, I would opt for the slightly lighter quicker handling 2 stroke for my competition hare scrambles and enduros, How ever now at my slightly advanced age and the fact I don’t find the need to compete so overwhelming, I am perfectly pleased with my four stroke to do my dual sport and occasional high speed runs thru the woods. I also don’t think a Te300 would be quite as pleasant on the day long rides I now do with some stretches of road thrown in.Its also nice to pull into a gas station to just top off with gas and not worry about carrying and mixing oil to it. And to be perfectly honest I believe my current FE350s would have no problem spanking my last 98 kx250 thru the woods. Its an amazing time we live in to be able to have so many competent choices of motorcycles to choose from, there’s no need to try to make a 400lb bsa a woods bike . Its easier then ever to find a motorcycle to fit your personal needs and skill level to do many things extremely well. There was a time not that long ago I had 9 motorcycles in my garage to do all my flavors of riding, I now have 2, and am completely satisfied.
Thanks for your comments Todd and we agree – there are so many good bikes out there!
Two stokes are the clear winner. It’s a stretch to say otherwise.
Somehow I think your version of the blog might lack balance …
Thanks for your input
2 strokes are better either way.
Think you’ve missed the point of this article Jeffrey …
Great article. My last 2 strock was a 1984 KTM 495. Loved that bike. I now ride a 2014 KTM 500EXC also love that bike. I have been thinking of a two strock . The KTM 300 or the Six day 450 EXC. Im 53 now and ride a lot in Mexico so I’m thinking the 2018 450 or the 2018 500EXC again is my best choice . Your thought’s ?
Hi Scott – Glad you enjoyed the article. As for your question – between the two, we’d choose the 500 as it’s an easier ride. The 450 seems to be a bit more race focussed and hence more demanding on the trail, whereas the big 500 has a beautifully lazy feel – pick a gear, any gear, and it’s good to go.
Id argue the 300 2 strokes are just as easy to ride as equal capacity or larger 4 strokes if not easier, tuned well the 300s will pull below idle revs and flaming one out is nie of impossible. They also fair well on long black top hauls and the top ends tend to outlast a 250 by about 60 hours. Probably do to not needing to be on the pipe as often. I own both and until large and vast distances need to be covered with out much throttle change ot gear changing i find my 300 to have the advantage over all my 4 strokes. And when it gets stupid nasty the 200 will almost trump the 300 till you forget to shift.
There’s no right and wrong in this debate Charles – but big distances on two strokes require more planning as you need more fuel stops and enough 2T oil! But we love our strokers too …
I’ve had both and I’ve ridden my whole life. Buy the one that’s most fun to you (the one you are in the mood for). I was in the mood to hear a thumper and wanted to go around torquing so I am currently on a 2017 Husky 450FX. I ride everything with it including super tech stuff and it goes just find. It’s all about one’s skill. It weighs 220 so no difference there. Ride whatever you are in the mood for. The right choice is the one you like the best. I’ll get a two stroke trials bike next 🙂
The answer is a garage full of both! Glad you are enjoying the Husky
I’m a younger lad (24), just got a new 2017 KTM 300, was riding a 2014 KTM 250 4 stroke, I’ve been dying to get back onto a 2 stroke, but nervous as hell!! I’ve qualified for the Roof of Africa this year and will put the stroker to the test!!!
Ride it like you stole it Dyl – the 2017 300 is real good!
Great article. I’ve owned and rode both for many years. I still remember my first ride on an mid 80’s CR500, scary. The modern two and four strokes are well made, great riding bikes. I think the choice comes down to the terrain that you drive on regularly, your budget for both buying the bike and regular up keep and if you plan on riding in races. I currently own/use a four stroke and I think for my trail riding it’s great. My buddy has a two stroke and he has a blast with it. Get what you like. Great time for dirt bike fans.
thx im a 13 year old rider and i just wanted to know the differences
Glad to be able to help Justin – get yourself a bike and there’s a whole world waiting for you!
Great Article. I had all but made up my mind that a “stroker” was the right ride for me (even though I have recently come into a thumper by chance on a trade). I can see that the considerations are much more nuanced than I had thought. Feeling happier with my thumper at the moment…
The right bike is often the one you’ve got! Glad we could help
Trying to decide between a 4 stroke or 2. I’m now 56 years old and want to do some racing again. Last time i raced was on a yz125 and i was 15… what bike do you recommend for an over the hill racer.
Resuming racing later in life can be challenging, and motocross is certainly the most demanding way to go! If we were to be brutally honest, we’d recommend heading towards enduro or Hare and Hounds as a better start point before returning to motocross. If you are determined to head the MX route, then there could be a familiarity to return with a new YZ250 as you’ll recognise everything immediately from your 125 days. However, racing a two stroke is vastly more physical than going for a new breed four stroke, so a far easier option would be a KTM SXF 350 which is a great starter machine that you can master and improve on – this bike is unbeaten in world motocross championship motocross.
Another option might be to head down the classic motocross route – it’s easier on the pocket, comfortably nostalgic and a very friendly atmosphere to be surrounded by like minded riders of a similar vintage ….
Let us know how you get on
rying to decide between a 4 stroke or 2. I’m now 56 years old and want to do some racing again. Last time i raced was on a yz125 and i was 15… what bike do you recommend for an over the hill racer.
Go 350 fourstroke – so a Husky or KTM. You’ll be amazed how good they are!
I currently ride (on the street / weekend trails) a 2015 GASGAS EC 300 E racing and previous to that owned a 1996 YZ250 bored.
My very first bike was a 1990 xr100 and you could not kill that bike for nothing. By the time i let it go it had a stripped spark plug threads and would still crank and run shooting oil out the top! But even before that happened to me it was a slow bike. My riding friend back then had a cr85 and i was in love with it. Sounded better road better, felt better. But times have changed and this article makes me want to go back to where i started on a thumper just to see what all the talk is about on these new modern 4 bangers. I am really tempted to buy a husky FE 450 OR 500 for my style of riding and i almost did but then the fuel injected 2 strokers came out by beta and i’ve been set on that to see what its like. I really am stuck on my decision and this article making them come to a tie doesn’t help me lol:D but was very informative. I wish i had the funds like others in here to just have the best of both worlds and get one of each but unfortunately my wife says no. So which will i choose. I think i’ve made up my mind to switch from @Braaplife.jonesing (ig) to @thumperlife.jonesing (possible username) because the idea of not having to carry klotz two stroke benol oil around, and the ease of riding from power response and delivery is so tempting. Most likely i’ll get one for my street/trail riding style but go buy a used late 2000’s 125 two stroker just for track and two smoke fun so i don’t feel like i abandoned my 2stroke for life moto!!!
wish you all the best in your decisions and riding… bikelife!
OK so two different ways to go here – if you go four stroke then go for the 350 of 500 rather than the 450 which feels more race oriented. The 350 is excellent, the 500 is surprisingly good at everything it does, with the added rocket ship acceleration. On the stroker side 250 TPI – no contest.
Race motors don’t have camshafts. If you think a 2T cannot be less fatiguing to ride than a 4T, then you haven’t ridden something set-up like the tractoresque DT175-400 series of bikes from the mid 1970s. If 2Ts had the same amount of development over the last, say, 18 years, there is little doubt that a current 2T would be lighter and much faster than an equivalent 4T equipped bike. We built a 2016 KTM 150 sx to the tune(no pun intended) of 46.3 WHP without touching the porting. Of course packaging the pipe inside the frame proved to be a challenge as it is dimensionally larger in all ways save for overall length versus the stocker. Thankfully, the engine is tiny, so the diffuser sections and neutral(belly) fit without excessive cursing. The bike even shed 0.5Kg with a proper pipe. Lest one think this a high-strung unrideable beast, it is not. It is so strong from the midrange to sign-off that those that have ridden it swear it has a 300cc+ engine, but it’s simply power to weight. We could tune it quite a bit more, but it would degrade its dirt(MX) track ability.
KTM is the only major bike manufacturer that is even trying to develop the 2T engines; and they’re selling tons of them. Rotax is developing them for Ski-Doo snowmobiles, and all other efforts seem to be tiny teams of engineers(see Suter) that are making boutique bikes for the rich and famous.
Thankfully, KTM 2T engines can be worked to make lots more power with little loss in reliability. My dream bike engine would be a 72mm x 72mm* x 2 TPI in a “V” configuration that I could install in a proper roadracing/streetbike chassis. We have a 250 sx with a heavily ported 300 SXS big bore kit that makes loads of power, but it has an 800 RPM powerband. It’s a screamer at the dirt drags, but is otherwise useless.
There is still much to love about 2T power.
*I chose this arrangement because it is the current bore and stroke of the KTM 300s in all their guises. Square engines make a great deal of sense for 2T race engines due to the nature of loop scavenged 2T engines.
Thanks for your input Todd, and just for the record, we have ridden many DTs and race motors can have camshafts!
Good luck with building your dream bike.
I’ve got both, ridden more. I love all of my bikes, but the truth here is that it depends on where and how you’re riding. For easy-cheesy long distance trail rides, I prefer one of my four strokes. For ass-busting hard enduro, hill climbs, riverbeds, etc.; I’ll take my two stroke every time. I feel like I would be dead set on four stroke if I were a motocross guy, but MX tracks just put me to sleep. Give my my smoker and gnarly, slippery, rocky, trails–that’s my kind of riding
Thanks for the input Mark – you should come ride with us in Asia – plenty of those trails to ride
I’m a newbie and have been debating this question in the past months.. Ended up getting a Husqvarna FE350 2019, after reading it would be a better bike to learn. The bike has a lot of traction, it’s easy to ride, but it’s incredibly tall, and gets too hot when the going gets tough. Oh and the sound is boring (stock can). I ride mostly technical terrain in the woods, with loose rocks, roots and mud. The motorcycle has only 15 hours and I’m thinking if it wouldn’t have been better if I got the smoker. I’m not sure the engine brake is an advantage in this kind of riding. I’m considering the swap for the TE250i. Or maybe it’s my mind playing tricks on me. I have to make a decision, since I need to lower the suspension internally. Any opinion? Cheers
Try the Beta X Trainer – it will do everything you want Sousa
Our review is within the blogs
I have a beta xtrainer , though have upgraded the suspension and added the rr pipe for more mid and top end , love the bike , use for endur0 and trail riding , for easier trails and longer distance I have a husky630 , again a different animal , easier to ride until the going gets tough due to weight but still fun in its own right , definitely horses for courses .
You are right Col – people try to look for what is best and it does vary!
It’s crazy that there aren’t more Demo Days going on in the NorthEast US as I would love to finalize my buying decision. My current ride, a 2013 KTM200xcw is fine when I ride alone (which is rare) but when riding with my friends on their 300’s I am left behind as they fly over rocky terrain/hill climbs with more low end torque and I’m fighting all the way with shifting up and down to maintain drive. I am 59 and now wanting an easier, more linear and torque ride, so I am wondering between a 300 and a ? 4 stroke. I weigh 178lbs. I would rather go with a bike that is on the light side and one that I cannot whiskey throttle when I get gassed. I am leaning 4 stroke due to this but unsure on size/model.
The 200 is too hard work – unless you are racing or 70kg and 20 it’s best left alone! I’d say go KTM EXC250F or 350F if you do bigger distances. The modern four strokes are just so easy to ride that you will love them – just go for something quite new, not an older one. I ride a 250 stroke which is great – see out blog on them, but if you want to go for the thumper, those are the ones you need!
Thanks for the help I’m moving from a ktm 125 2 smoker to either a beta 480 or a 300 euro. Any thoughts?
Don’t go too big unless you have big distances to cover – 300 sounds good!
2 strokes all day every day, even if you have to get to the moon. No need to waste time going “bang, blow, pause, pause”! Just “Bang, Blow! Bang, Blow!”. Get it on! Unless we’re talking XR650Rs. The only badass four-stroke!
… although the new Sherco 300 factory four stroke looks choice.
See the problem – there are great bikes in both camps!
Hi I have a yamaha 2007 wr250f and been using it for pay and play practice days for enduro and mx, but feel the bike is to heavy and more of a trail/ green laning bike. I can’t decide whether I like mx or enduro more and want a bike that I can use for both! What bike do u recommended?
This is a simple one to answer – upgrade to the new WRF250. It’s based on the motocross bike and is vastly better than the 2007 bike you have, so will do the mx tracks and be super-sweet on the trails. If you want to be really technical you can buy the Yamaha mapping tool to up the power for the track and wind it back for the trails.
You should find some good light use examples in the second hand market – try to buy from a middle-aged hobby rider rather than a younger guy who may have thrashed it!
Here’s the link to the Yamaha page – the current model has not varied too much from the original one launched a few years back
In my opinion, it’s one of the best trail / enduro bikes on the market – buy and enjoy!
The simple fact that it takes a lot more effort to keep a 2 stroke in the right gear and it takes more skill to race a 2 stroke and be consistently successful with it is the reason i miss two strokes and dislike the always reliable low end chugging power of 4 strokes .
Having the “Twist & Go” power of a 4 stroke takes away so much of what makes a motorcross rider great and thats being able to keep the bike in the right gear and being able to ride in a two strokes powerband throughout the race .
Four strokes take away so much of that individual talent & is basically a test of who has the best balance not the best skill set. Lets face it just the sound of the two stroke is enough for it to remain # 1 to me. Four strokes have no place in moto or supercross.
Thanks for the input Herb – there might be a hint of rose tint about your comments! Modern SX and MX riders don’t lack talent, they’ve just grown up with different technology. Watch Herlings or Cairoli on a four-stroke and they’re still just as talented as any of the greats of yesteryear – probably better, and put them on a two stroke and they’d still be the best. And look at Carmichael or Everts – they won on both and were incredible to watch no matter what they were riding.
As the article concludes, they are just different but it really doesn’t matter which you choose …
I’m 19 years old, I’ve been riding a Gas Gas ec 125 2007 since I was 14. Usually ride on trails, hardly ever go on circuits. It’s time I change my motorbike and I don’t know if I should choose 250 4stroke or 250 2stroke. I’m only 64 kgs btw.
If you are riding trails that require you to be road legal, what you should buy and ride will be defined by the law in your country. However, assumoing you are legal for a 250 then it’s pretty balanced as to which you buy. A two stroke will be closer to what you are used to, but the four stroke will be an easy option. The controlling issue for many women is the height issue – in this case the Beta Xtrainer may tick all your boxes – it’s easy to ride, oil injected so you don’t have to carry two-stroke oil and low enough to start with but if you need to lower it then you can just swap the linkage.
Try one – you’ll love it!
Sorry for not specifying before but I’m from Spain and Joan is a boy’s name here. People I met in races say 250 4 stroke no brainer, and the people with whom I ride at the weekends say a 250 4 stroke won’t do well in difficult trails and won’t be as fun as a 250 2 stroke. I don’t know, is that much of a problem to do difficult stuff in a 250 4 stroke?
Ah – OK Joan – my apologies! There really is little to choose between the two, but as a committed 2 stroke fan I’d go for a 250 stroker – The KTM EXC250 every time for me! You could go Husky too, but again there’s not much to choose between the two brands and who wants a linkage to smack into rocks!
I have a Yamaha WR400F with all the Free Mods done to it & have always enjoyed trail riding it. It has all the power that I need & a little more. I must say that 2-Strokes have the 4-Strokes beat on Acceleration. 2-Strokes just have that Lightning Throttle Response & whereas 4-Strokes have more of the Torque Smoother Acceleration. I have raced my Friends KX125 & I stayed just ahead of him & then once we got to about 50 mph then I Just Left him. What do you think the 0 – 60 mph Time is on the WR400F? Just a rough guess. Would it be near 5 Seconds you think?
So are you in Australia by any chance? In the UK very few people ride the 400s and 450s, there’s just no need. As to acceleration and 0 – 60 times, this makes little difference to a trail bike – you’ll just shred your off-road tyres if you go chasing these. If you are bothered about this, then at least try it on road tyres!
Hi everyone. I have an EXCF 350 and a TE300 / I ride in Eastern Canada. I echo the posts above in terms of “depends of where you ride”. I love both bikes – the 2 Stroke for tighter / harder trails but mostly for the grin factor of this thing being (and making you feel) so alive; but the 4 stroke is easier to ride overall, very usable traction, a bit more planted, and just perfect on a more casual / lazy ride. Bottom line – at my level I will NEVER find the limit of either of these bikes and would be absolutely fine keeping either one as my only bike forever. Where I live doing single track at lower speed the bikes actually feel very similar. In My area 2 strokes cannot be made street legal so a small edge to the 4 stroke on the practicality scale. I have seen friends agonizing about this choice but I think what really matters is being honest with yourself on the type of riding you really do and start from there
Glad you liked the article – the bikes are all so good now that there’s no need to show you colours like it’s Bloods or Crips …
Buy and ride the bike you want!
I used to ride bikes a lot when I was in my early teens, but a broken wrist made me put them away and focus more on football for the past 8 years. Now at 21 I’m looking to get back into riding and I’ve been trying to figure out what route to go. The last 2 bikes I’ve ridden was a jr 80 and then eventually a TTR 125, both spectrums of the 2 and 4, but I always enjoyed the 2 more, granted I didn’t get to enjoy the 4 as long as it. My question is for someone trying to get back into trail and hill riding, and kind of on a smaller budget looking for bikes from the early 2000’s worth less than $2000, what route would you recommend me going. Also at 6’ 195 would a 125 be too small for me at this point in time?
Anyway loved the article and looking forward to some feedback hopefully!
The big problem with 125s is that if you choose a 4t it will be gutless, and if you choose a 2T mx bike, they are quite peaky and hard to ride all day – fine for a race but not for the trails. If your budget is tight and you are looking at older bikes then you could go with things like an XR250 or DR350 – both will run all day on a cup of fuel and little maintenance. If you look around, you might find some early EXC 250s at that money ( don’t go for the 200 as it will have the same issues as a 125) and although they might need a bit of cash thrown at them, they will be a good buy – I have a 2001 EXC250 and it’s still a great bike. Usually an old bike will need you to swap out the piston, replace the wheel and head bearings, and a new set of plastics and graphics will bring it up to speed. Older four stroke KTMs will be more of a risk, so best avoid. If you want Japanese, then there should be plenty of YZ250s out there too, and again it’s a bomb proof motor with lots of aftermarket parts available – gear it down with a 14 tooth front and maybe 48 rear and that will give it longer legs on the trails.
Let us know what you choose!
2 strokes are better than a four stroke but all your info is correct.
Hey if that’s your opinion and it works for you Harrison, then all good.
Hi – I have only ever ridden big bikes, and the last 10 years a GS1200 – on and a little off road. I am 54 years and now been on some course with KTM (UK and Romania). I am now thinking of buying a KTM 250 – feels right to me, but still undecided between 2 or 4? I am leaning towards 4, for all the advantages you outlined and the fact that I am anything else but a professional rider, just for fun and at weekend. what do you think?
The 250F will be a great choice, but if you are buying second-hand then make sure you buy one from a similarly gentle novice rider, rather than a racer who’s just fitted new plastics to a knackered bike! Check out our guide here https://rideexpeditions.com/buying-second-hand-motorcycle-guide/
Glad we could help
I had a ’13 EXC500 (113.5kg) Single Trail/Open Trail/SuperMoto… and now have a ’16 TE300 (102kg) Single Trail/Technically hard enduro/it sucks for SuperMoto : (
My TE300 is very nice for technically riding and really feels very lively and flickable on single trail. It has an exciting feel with the backend flying around and I like the fact that there is no engine brake for holding corner speed. I often am steering with my throttle and cant help but ride like a kid on too much red cordial. A great bike! It’s go time on single trail.
I like my 2 stroke and have progressed a lot in the last few years… yet still I feel faster when I have a quick go on my friends 4 strokes. They are so easy to ride and so easy to receive TRACTION. And now that I have been racing….and fairing okay. I am seeking more traction, the best handling possible and am seriously considering going back to a 4 stroke. (Something modern with the improved weight reductions) The best solution would be to get the stop watch out.
You should go for a 350 KTM or Husky Ken. Less is more and you will be faster on it than on the 500
Love my Xt660R with proper tyres on it but I look at that FE350 or TE300I and I’m very tempted!
Julian I think it’s great that you get involved in the comments section answering people’s questions.
I think you will be amazed just how different modern four strokes are compared to your XT, so invest in the FE or EXC 350 and it will make you smile all day long. But buy the 300 TPI and that smile will be changed into a massive grin fleet- if you think how much fun your first 125 stroker was, it’s that and more – the 300 makes you feel 16 again!
Don’t overthink it – get one!
Hi Julian – Great article and I also really appreciate your commitment/responses – I read all of them. 🙂 I fit in the middle of novice and intermediate. I rode a 690 Enduro R for a few years in fairly flat double and singletrack in a National Forest in south TX and some medium technical double/singletrack in the hills, creeks and backroads outside Eureka Springs, Arkansas. I rode it pretty hard but had to manhandle it quite a bit (6’2″/200lbs/56 and in very good shape – cardio and lift in gym 5 or six days a week). The guys I rode with were surprised what I did with the 690 but it was WORK and I never really fully enjoyed it – the straight line power and low maintenance intervals yes, but the handling and delivery of the power not so much. I’ve been without the 690 for about 3 years and am thinking of buying a 2015 – 2019 350 or 390 Beta 4 stroke because I now live in Italy and am really only interested in riding in the mountains here in the south central region. What is your opinion? THANKS!!!
Glad the article helped. Betas have come on in leaps and bounds in recent years and the 350 or 390 will be a great trail bike for you – and so much lighter than that 690!
Enjoy the ride.
Hi, im a complete beginner and want to learn to ride on enduro, woods and hills. Which is the best bike to help with my progress? 2 stroke or 4 stroke? Which brand and which model do you recommend? Any other facts to take in consideration? Thanks.
Your article only lightly touches on it, but how do you feel the debate changes when thinking about UK green laning, and specifically the invevitable road sections between?
I run a Beta 300 X-Trainer, having come from a KTM 525, and find the 2 stroke doesn’t feel at all comfortable at speeds of 45 – 50 mph (vibration and it feels like the engine is revving to the moon!) I’m starting to think maybe back to 4 stroke is the way forward for green lane use, but can’t find much discussion about this subject online.
You can gear your X trainer for higher speeds but you will lose a certain amount of low speed punch – this bike is not built for continuous high road speeds so inevitably it doesn’t excel in this environment. A modern four stroke like a 350 KTM / Husky will maybe be the ideal bike to have a foot in both camps. The 525 KTM is a great bike but things have moved on enormously in four-stroke technology! For our money we’ll take the slight downsides on road sections for the joy of a two stroke – a 250 / 300 TFI is next on the shopping list.
Hey, thanks for the information, my buddies and I like to mess around as say our bike is better but, it’s nice to know they are pretty equal. I plan on using this information for a writing assignment for school. So I just wanted to say thanks!